The Midnight Hour

I appreciate you posting this, because my brother is currently enlisted, and all of the men in my family have served in the military at some point. There is a lot of disinformation floating around, and I think the public needs more education about the military.

You’re right, the salary isn’t phenomenal, but it’s not starving. And I know there’s something to the equivalent of hazard pay, but I’m sure we can all agree people who risk their life deserve to be paid more ;) Thank you for your service.

Funny, I just had someone comment to me yesterday about that. Military doesn’t pay. I wanted to laugh. Not only is the pay not bad, but then you can even tie in the fact of other things like insuarance as well. Taken from a Gunny that I know, It isn’t only about the pay, its much more than that when it comes to the Corps, there’s great honor in it.

It’s amazing how benefits have changed over the years. I remember the USAF (15 years ago) resisted offering BAS even for special details. BAQ was only given to married and if you were single, they equated married people recieving BAQ to single people living in what amounted to a motel room. Maybe the office I worked in was unique, being that many of the standard benifits offered, you were locally disuaded from taking advantage of, including education and everything has a dollar value tied to it. I do pity the folks who got married for the BAQ and to get off base just the same. They usually end in divorce.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. But I would question your conclusion when it comes to pay at the higher ranks. Perhaps $43K a year is decent salary in Califonia for a starting low-wage earner, but for Sergeant or SSgt, the leadership and logistics responsibilities they can carry alone would equate to a management-level position in almost any civilian industry. Starting salary for most civilian security companies runs past $50K, and that’s just one industry. A sales manager could clear $70K tops, without commissions.
The problem with military pay is that is pretty much “on-par” with representative civilian jobs at the low end (O-6), but in the middle is where it really lacks.
A SSgt of Marines with 8 years, with his leadership ability, his logistics and technical know-how, could be clearing $90K in the civilian world, I sh** you not. It’s a matter of will and drive.
It also comes back to the reason you’re in the military. Nobody joins the military for pay and bennies. It’s for service and sacrifice to country, and for honor. So let’s try to avoid trying to make it seem monetarily worthwhile by copying elements of the DoD’s own press releases.
When the time comes for a serviceman to hang up his boots and leave the Corps, whether his reasons are for family or for himself, we wish them well on their civilian endeavors.

Sorry, I should have typed “low end (O-3 and below” in my middle paragraph above.

Bill,
I disagree with your assertion that a SSgt can make $90k, as a general rule. There are always exceptions, and where the SSgt lives will determine how far $90k goes, but I think it would truly be the exception for someone with that education and experience to find a job with that salary. My next blog will deal with this specifically.

If you’re talking about sales or some other type of self-employment, then that’s a different story. That is always only limited by the individual. However, I’m talking about a legitimate company offering to pay someone $90k that only has a high school education or GED. I don’t think it’s going to happen.

Show me a job listing that pays $90k and only requires a high school education and eight years military experience and I’ll concede. We think pretty highly of our leadership skills in the military, but the idea that you’ll jump right into a mid-upper level management position is false.

Your math is wrong. BAH is 1049 not 1409. Total salary is $38330 not $43K. Is your point still valid??

KT
CDR, USN

Sir,
The number you quoted is correct for “BAH without dependants.” However, the Marine in the example is married and would receive “BAH with dependants,” which is $1409/month for an E-3 in zip code 92055. My math is correct.

https://secureapp2.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdiem/bah.html

you must be an officer….because my question to you is how did an E-5’s salary (my brother in law’s family) qualify for the Women and infant children (WIC)program? My brother retired as an E-8 …was offered sergeant major of a battalion and said he was out before this last Iraqi war…not worth it…and my father retired as an E-7 and had to work after retirement because the pay didnt support him… it is a much different situation for enlisted versus officers. so dont go blowing too much smoke up people’s butts. in an conflict i would trust my life with an NCO versus an officer anytime… the bottom line is that the infantry may doesnt get enough pay to protect our white lilly butts…and I have a bachelor’s and masters degree…

and i do agree with you wholeheartedly that someone leaving the military has a tough time getting a decent paying job. if you are willing to sacrifice family time, being a truck driver might be an option for a vet. as you mentioned, unless you have a techical shill, not many other jobs out there for people who are trained to kill. oh, by the way…not trying to get on your case on my earlier post, i am just upset that this country doesnt pay its military more…and many people dont want to pay taxes… and at the same time enjoy the freedoms and choices we have in this great country…

jj,
1. Yes, I am an officer. That is the main reason I used an E-3 in my example. The math doesn’t lie. Check it yourself.
2. Your BIL qualifies for WIC as an E-5 because it’s calculated off his base pay (and any other taxable pays, but not BAH and BAS), which comprises only about 40-60% of his actual take-home pay (or civilian equivalent pay), as I explained in the blog. The income limit for WIC is $35,798 for a family of four. Performing some quick calculations it appears he’ll be eligible for WIC up until the time he makes E-7 (depending on his time in service).
3. You can trust whomever you choose with your life. I don’t trust you either, so we’ll call it a push.
4. I am not blowing smoke up anyone’s butt. I’ve provided hard facts. So far all it has required to refute everything thrown at me is Google and Start–Programs–Accessories–Calculator. I suggest anyone wishing to refute my argument employ both of those tools before acting like one.

Midnight,

today if you look at the enlisted you would find that a majority of them are unable to support a family of 4 working for McDonald’s etc. So when i hear people say that the volunteer army are people who “volunteered” and let them fight in Iraq etc… because that is what they signed up for, makes my blood boil.

One thing that civilians do not understand when you say that soldiers are not grossly underpaid. I would hope you would differenciate the NCO and officer pay. As you know the treatment with respect to base housing etc is much better for officers. I always viewed the military growing up as a dependent as the ultimate socialistic society. I found it interesting that stateside my father couldn’t get me orthodontic care but when he got orders to move overseas, all of a sudden I was able to get braces.

One thing you do not point out is the substandard retirement pay for an E-7 with over 20 years of service. And on top of that when you reach social retirement eligibility how the government will take one dollar for every two dollars of social security pay that you are eligible for. You probably have more insight into that. As I mentioned I am no longer associated with the military. But I will say this…

but i do agree that officers probably get paid well in today’s military. the solution or correct decision for all would get getting a proper education. and the NCO did not make a good decision there. then again education of people is what would probably solve alot of issues in this world… especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Finally, i will thank you for getting me in tune with the thought that in today’s military that soldiers get paid well.

take care

jj,
I’ve taken great pains to use junior enlisted pay as examples. There is a substantial difference between enlisted and officer pay. However, I just showed that even the junior enlisted pay isn’t that bad when you take everything into account.

I think the US military has one of the best retirement systems in the US, simply because it vests over 20 years. I don’t know of anyone that retires after 20 years and actually retires. They move on to new careers, and 50% of their previous pay in the military is a nice supplemental (perhaps even primary) income. If you entered at age 18 then you’d “retire” at 38. You can then essentially start a new career and have another 20-30 years of quality working life, and perhaps retire from another career.

I’m not exactly an authority on the subject of military retirement, but that’s my perspective. I would be interested to hear the experience of some retirees.

I don’t know your situation, Midnight, but life isn’t exactly what I would call “financially comfortable” for my military family. My husband is a Tech Sergeant (E-6) who just turned over 19 years of service in the USAF. We have three children, ages 16, 14, and 12. Throughout our military life we have often been reminded of our “lower middle class” status in ways that were quite pronounced.

For example… we had occasion to stand in line for foodstamps (McGuire AFB, New Jersey, 1995-1998) that we solidly qualified to receive. We weren’t “barely eligible” for this form of welfare, in fact we would have qualified had my husband been two ranks higher!
Despite the humiliation that accompanies such a task, the alternative wasn’t really feasible because we NEEDED those foodstamps! Naturally, it was the military wives that usually stood in line to collect them, and also to redeem them, of course, at the grocery, since the embarassment was often too great for those who wore the uniform.

My children have never attended a single school, in ANY state, where we failed to qualify for either free or reduced school lunches. And we have never found a savings account or college fund even remotely realistic. Instead, we literally live for the one annual respite that just might allow for new clothing for my girls, or a much needed appliance for our home. That oasis is called a “tax return” …always likely to be greater than family members because we are “poor” enough to receive the maximum “earned income credit.

Despite two decades spent barely clearing the government’s own definition of the “poverty level,” my husband has served his country proudly, and without complaint… in the Panamanian ousting of their drug-dealing president; in the Gulf War for nearly the entire first year of his first daughter’s life; in Bosnia, in Somalia, in Senegal and most of west Africa; in regular 90-day rotations to Saudi Arabia and turkey; and to the Syrian border at the start of the Iraq War, among other “secret” absences from his daughters’ lives.

Why did he do it?.. certainly not for the opportunity to acquire wealth, or even financial peace-of-mind for that matter. Plenty of bills have gone unpaid “until next time” and plenty of sleep has been lost in anxiety and worry by both of us… neither wanting to worry the other by sharing such feelings, so much fear has easily gone unsaid.

My girls don’t have braces, though the oldest clearly will have to face this issue soon, at the age of 17, and five years later than the subject should have been addressed. We are relying on our girls’ exceptional academic and artistic talents to carry them into college, and thankful to God that such a miracle IS possible… such may not be the case for every military family, so in this way we seem to be blessed after all.

In a year my husband will retire and we pray the civillian world will be in need of the skills he can offer. It appears that there ARE plenty of opportunities for him… but sadly this isn’t the case for retirees who have spent so many years in other occupations for which the civillian world has little use.

Military-induced “low quality of life,” as it applies to financial status, is no myth Mr. Midnight.

Mel,
I don’t really know what to say. Probably nothing you’re going to like. I’m sorry life has been tough for you and your family. I am sure three children at such a young age were a large burden as a young enlisted military family. Children are a blessing, but we all make our decisions and live with the consequences. It’s unfortunate that with that much deployed time, which is tax free and includes many extra pays (about a $700/month + tax incentive increase right now, usually about $1000/month) that you guys still had to struggle.

Dear Hero,

I really understand how painful it can be to realize the things you read on the internet about job finding and what employers are looking for. To an extent I agree with your fact finding project of the job market.

In today’s world, you don’t need a degree and corporate work experience to find a high paying job. How do I know this? There are millionares in real life that are college drop-outs.
Einestine never went to school or college to become a brilliant inventor, but I am not comparing an average person to him. There are jobs that you can do that do not require the degree or skills in order to make a good living, and I am not talking about illegal business.

Regardless of what you hear/read about the job market, you won’t believe what’s hidden in the job market and what kind of companies are there that will hire you. You can do your research about ‘Hidden Job Market’ and how you can tap into 60% of where jobs are and are never posted on jobsites. I am not here to sell you anything or market any products. But I have to say that I have university friends who have their master degrees and are struggling to find a job. It all comes down to a person and how he/she represents themselves in the market. I do know five military people from the Navy, Army, and the Airforce that are getting well paid in jobs that they never had a degree in but rather only a certificate for that job position. I am willing to release their names to you as a reference to my proof.

Again, to remind you, i am not here to sell you a product. What I am about to share with you is something that I did to land myself in a job that I never thought I would have in a matter of two weeks. I used to work as a contractor in my field and it was a hassle to find another job where usually it take 2-6 months to land in another job. So it was becoming frustrating for me to move between jobs after my contracts ended where I was jobless for months although I must admit that I had the required skills to perform the job. I came across a new tool that has recently been release on the internet for job finding. I do not know anyone else that knows about it. It took me 2 weeks to go to 25 interviews where 10 were on the phone, to land myself in a job while have 3 other offers to choose from.

With the emergence of the internet and improvements of marketing, you can come up with ways of making money like never before. Our world is all about ideas and what you can do with those ideas to come up with a business idea to make money.

I am not sure whether you have checked how much traffic is coming to your site for visitors just willing to read your stories of Iraq war, because that is the hottest thing being discussed in the news all across United States and most parts of the world. I am sure you read about the British Soldiers that where captured by Iran and later release to go home. They are now making millions of dollars from the media by selling their stories.

I am not suggesting that you do the same, although you could, but you can see how someone like those British Marines who some of them had no possible college degree could make that much money.

From what I read in your blogs, you seem to be able to write great and get your point across so amazingly. I can see that you have great writing skills. Everyone would die to know how it feels or what it is like to be a soldier at war and be able to read stories about it since that is the main subject of every conversation these days. Have you considered publishing a book of your war experiences? You don’t need a degree to write a book these days.

I will give you another example. I am sure you have heard of myspace.com. It was written by a guy who made that site only by reading some web development books and coming up with such an idea. He sold the site for $540,000,000.

So have I convinced you enough that without a degree you can succeed?

Paul,
I’ve never contended that you cannot succeed without a degree. Of course there are millionaires without college degrees. I’m sure there are also midgets with three testicles, but you don’t meet them everyday.
There are always opportunities that the savvy person will recognize and reap rewards. However, most people don’t. My article addresses the average person. Your comment addresses the exceptional person. I think we’re both right.

I was in the U.S.Army for ten years. I entered as a E2, and yes, my family had to use programs such as WIC- AT THE BEGINNING. But I worked my tail off to get promoted and went to college. Granted, the last couple years (the clinton years), my command would not sign off on me going to school. THAT was one of the reasons I got out. Bottom line- if your employer is not doing it for you… QUIT! In the ten years I was in, my family enjoyed the benefits, especially the housing- that was the best deal. But neither my ex-wife nor me were spoiled brats that demanded everything get handed to us. Remember- IT’S A VOLUNTEER MILITARY. And I’ve met a great many people who have used their experience and got a job. I know I have benefitted from that, and I have helped others to get jobs right out of the military. So drop the whining, have a goal and work to reach it. I got out of the military as a SSG, and have gotten jobs for the very reason that I WAS A LEADER- the HR person saw this, questioned me on it and I found myself leading… again.

There is one big thing eveyone is forgetting here. The money is compensation for being canon fodder. The military gets the opportunity to did ditches. Plus, don’t forget those great vacation getaways in the middle east and Africa.

I can’t beleive that the pay is offset so bad by BAH. The best way to offset it all is to invest in the Thrift Savings Plan. The TSP in the long run will help boost your retirement. I’ve been in the service for 8 years now and since the TSP has come out I have made about a 4th of my pay annually from interest earned on my account. Of course I have the help with my “TSP”:www.tspblog.com. In a few years, my annual interest will be more than my annual salary. Not bad if you use common sense.

Midnight is right on point with this article. it doesnt matter that he is an officer, he’s detailing military salary for the lowest paid, who happen to be enlisted. If one is an officer, that proves his point even more that military members are not underpaid.

In any occupation, you will have those (most) who will say they need more money. for what military members do, they definitely could be better compensated, but nevertheless, they make decent money.

remember, base pay is not all of the military compensation; with bas and bah most make upwards of $1500 more per month (which is not taken into consideration for qualification for programs such as wic).

it is unfortunate that some of our military families receive benefits such as wic, but that is simply because some military families decide to have only one working spouse while the other remains as a homemaker.

not putting anyone down about being a homemaker, but most families in this day and time have dual working spouses. i would almost guarantee that the majority of military families in receipt of wic have only one working spouse.

last year, i retired from the military after 21 years (1SG). it was a goal to ensure that before i left the military i had a degree. i was able to obtain a masters degree by attending classes at night and on the weekends. it took a while but it happened.

bottom line is i was always able to support my family (sure there was a struggle at times when my wife didnt work), and i earned a not so bad retirement.

with my degree (75% paid by the army) AND my leadership abilities i was able to obtain a decent job paying $85,000 a year in addition to my 35,000 a year military retirement. Not so bad for an enlisted man.

Midnight is right on point!

Im Sorry but Military Pay is little. My husband enlisted one year ago. After 5 years with the National Guard. I stand behind his decision to do so, as this is what he wanted to do. He had a great job in the Civilian world, making 2 x’s what he makes with the military. I also had my own business. We checked into the figures you were throwing out there and thought ok, it wont be that bad. Maybe alittle less than $1000 pay cut. But with me not working and cutting down to one vehicle this can work. Well, we were sadly mistaken. Yeah the pay is great when he is deployed, but when he’s home our family is starving. When we first moved here 1 year ago, the military didnt have housing for us. So, we rented a nice little house off post. The rent was $25 below the BAH. Then you add the $100 a month in Water, Sewer and Trash. Then add the $150 a month in Electric (Not turning on the AC hardly at all) We ended up having to go through a debt program to get ourselves out of debt. I agree living on post is much cheaper but if your post doesnt have quarters for you, youre bumming. Now we just moved onto post and deal with all the drama involved with that. I cannot wait for the 1 year and 10 months and 28 days he has left (not that were counting) so we can go back to our civilian lives. This has really soured our mouths. Oh and Gas on Post is not 10 to 15 cents cheaper. Try only 4 cents cheaper and thats only once and a while. Otherwise its the same price as the Pilot or the Flying J up the road. Oh and by the way just about everyone I know is on Food Stamps and barely struggling also. SO Im not sure where your figures really come in but realistically now days people have more children and bills. Oh Yeah and Afees being cheaper because they dont charge taxes. Look at Walmart as their prices with taxes are alot cheaper than Afees without taxes. Uniform allowance yeah right, $371 not really my husband with 5 years of service received $185. I will again state it is nice to finally live on post and be able to use the AC, the washer and dryer and electricity without worrying about what the bills are going to be. Its just a short time and then Back to Civilian Life YEAH!!!

Just a couple of details, then a few points of view:

First, there is not an offset of Social Security payments for retired pay — that ended many years ago: I’m drawing full social security and full retirement pay.

Retirement pay is 50% of base pay at 20 years. It is a security net or a supplement to the pay you will earn after you retire from the military at age 38 - 42.

The best retirement preparation is education — as much as you can get between deployments. Use the military 75% tuition assistance programs, and the GI Bill after retirement, about $35K currently.

The example of an E-3, married, but without children, is unrealistic. People get married, have children, and struggle to support the family. That is not uniquely military, but the military junior enlisted families do struggle — even the frugal, good money managers.

My experience was 30 years starting as an infantry private at $87 per month, retiring as a colonel. Spent 2 and 1/2 decades helping my Marines organize their finances, deal with the hardships of practical military life, and overcome the very tough punches that unscripted life guarantees to everybody at some point.

I was gratified to see comments from military wives — wish the Congress could get about a thousand hours per member of testimony from Mrs. E-3 and Mrs E-7.

Just wanted to say that as an enlisted, menber. An hold the rank of E-3, the af has been pretty good, i make 2,200$ a month which is more than enough live off base, my wife works. no kids. No financial trouble, I do live comfortably. I do not worrie about my bills. And I do have free healthcare and free dental. I don’t what other company in the civilian world offers that. Just wanted to say the pay is not amazing but it is enough. Just have to manage your self. And i am working on my college degree right now. Af pays for it and I am active duty. And i do have paid leave.

I agree that the military is paid good, not great. But when I joined 21 years ago it was to serve to get paid. Show me the money is not the attitude a soldier should have or ever take. When I joined I was getting around $700 a month but that was with a FREE room and FREE food! Take a look at any barracks and see the nice cars sitting out there. The major problem the military has with pay is the people who don’t know how to budjet. The biggest problem I have is that after 21 years I am forced into medical retirement. My family and I was not expecting it, not setup for it, I can no longer work, the retirement pay is not enough for a family of 4 to survive on. I would think after 1 or 30 years of service, if you are medically unable to work you would be taken care of…that simply is not true. The retirement needs to be more, hence the reason I was shooting for 30 years, that is truly the only decent retirement for enlisted.
Ever forward!

I have only a couple of things to disagree on based on our location at FT. Bragg, NC.

The two on post px/comsy vary on prices as well as all three class six. The comsy prices aren’t better on baby diapers for certain. Other things they are a bit by maybe 20 cents or such. Formula runs around a dollar cheaper. But the prices flucuate as well. One week a case of water was 2.49, next 2.99, up to 3.49. Last week it was 2.99 again.

The gas here is not cheaper but by 1-3 cents compared to most gas stations. Wal-mart was 7 cents cheaper than on post and that was without the extra 3 you save if with a walmart gift or credit card.

The deployment pay my E5 spouse will not be around 1000. Its 225, 250, and 100 plus tax refund which is 267.42 equalling 842.42. Which also doesn’t include the extra childcare since there is not an extra person like before to leave the children with for doc appt or ect. That’s just the normal imminent danger, seperation, and hardship pay. Obviously if he had a hazardous duty he’d receive more but he’s not in one of those jobs.

Now for the agreement. He makes better money per year in 4 years of service vs. my mom with 10 years at a private upper level university.

My husband makes approx 1400 every half month, roughly 34,000 a year. His only additional pay to Base, BAH, BAS is 200 a month extra for a skill he qualified to try and learn and succeeded at. He is an E-5 going on 4 years in. My mom brings home approx 800 every two weeks if she is lucky, roughly 21,000 a year. Now that is all rough after taxes, insurance incl. life, etc. She gets nice tuition benefits as well, but I never realized growing up how little she really brought home. We are considering WIC only as an option for baby formula. It was not a choice to bottle feed, but one of necessity. It does put a crimp in our budget at 23.00 a can lasting only 5-6 days at most. But we manage well on enlisted salary apart from that.

He can with his clearance and language skills make 100,000 civilian if he so chose. He is considering it after some ignorant moves by the chain of command, but he love it and wants to go officer. I support him in all his decisions so that is up to him. And you can’t base a decision on who to trust on what their rank is no matter enlisted or officer. There are idiots in every grade.

I think the biggest problem enlisted people have is poor budgeting with too much credit. But that’s everyone’s story.

BAH and BAS only applies to military members who are married or who have dependants. Without a family to support base pay is all the service member will recieve. If one can convince a junior military member to eat in the chow hall, then a lot of money can be saved. As a Marine Master Sergeant I eat in the chow hall on the days I work and the savings is great. The food is great too.

so they really tax the base pay? my husband is getting deployed and has supposedly been told that this stuff is not taxed. he is an e-4 with 8 years in, expected base pay of roughly $2,000/month which he said is not taxed. not right?

Rhett,
The pay is not taxable when the men are deployed. Your husband was correct in telling you that. However when they come home it goes back to being taxable. Make sure that all of his extra pay is stopped 2 weeks after he is home for good as they will take it back from you.

I have been saying for a long time that military pay isn’t so bad. I’ve never thought it was. I enlisted in mid 2001 as an E2, and to my little 19 year old eyes, that $1104 I was going to get paid looked like a lot of money to me. Of course, it has gone up a lot since then, and rightfully so.

I was a single soldier, lived in the barracks, ate in the chow hall, and for the first time in my life, could afford a car payment and a cell phone. Life was good.

When I got out of the Army, I married one of my NCO’s. Man, I’d seen LES’s of people his rank before in the orderly room when I was on CQ, and I thought that was a big deal!! Well, really, it is to me. Now don’t get the wrong idea, I sure didn’t marry him for the money, and at times (especially in the beginning), we’ve struggled really hard, especially when I was in school. However, by and large, this is a better life than I’ve ever had, or ever imagined for myself. We have brand new furniture in every room of the house, a brand new car, a pantry full of food, and a savings account with a very solid balance. Everything but one of our cars, we own in cash. We finance nothing that costs under $20k. If it’s less than that, we’ll just pay cash, and if we can’t afford it in cash right then, we’ll save till we can.

My husband has been in the Army for 15 years. This is how I would expect someone of such experience and status to live. We don’t have everything we could ever imagine, but we have more than enough. I don’t have to work outside the home. We have recently become able to take vacations. We’re getting ready to buy a house at our next duty station. We’ve had enough of living on post, and we don’t want to move off only to rent. As you can see, we’re just fine, and again, my husband is an NCO, so we’re doing this on a salary which is quite comparable to many many Army families.

My two cents on why people think military pay is so bad is because lower-enlisted try to keep up with their NCO’s and officers in appearance. Sorry, but I was a lower-enlisted soldier once (A single one, thank goodness!) and I drove a car made by GM. I bought it used. My car payment was like $200 a month, and I drove that car for over five years. I got my money’s worth and then some. I watched fellow PFC’s and such buying expensive cars, and then having them repo’d time and time again. This was even worse for the married ones. Personally, I don’t know why anyone would get married below the rank of E5. That’s just a recipe for disaster, because as a previous poster mentioned, with marriage comes the kids almost immediately, in most cases, and on lower-enlisted pay, you’ve got to be kidding me.

Then you get the lower-enlisted wife who befriends the platoon sergeant’s wife, and thinks she ought to have everything that wife has, even though that wife is married to someone who has been in the Army 5x as long as her husband, and has paid her dues. All the lower-enlisted wife sees is that the platoon sergeant’s wife has all kinds of things she doesn’t have, and she wants them. She waits till her husband is deployed, and runs up the credit cards to a sky high level, when in reality, quite the opposite should be happening. I cannot even count for you how many times I have seen this happen.

Possibly, it is because my husband was already an NCO when I married him that I haven’t felt the crunch of military pay quite like lower-enlisted wives have. Alternately, maybe it is because I was a soldier first, and I knew exactly what I was working with when it came to military pay already because I’d gotten to make my mistakes on my own dime when I was a young soldier. However it was, though, my husband and I have managed to do quite well for ourselves for the past few years that we’ve been married, and the only income to our home is that of one NCO, and yes, we have kids.

Military pay is not bad. Not bad at all. All it takes is a little bit of frugality, a realistic budget, and a united mentality. A family can do great on military pay.

Great article. One other factor that I think is important is the fact that officers and enlisted folks are not ‘working’ but serving thier country.

The United States either enlists our services or commissions us to serve at the pleasure of the President. This is an honor not everyone can be a part of and of course it carries with it the risk of capture or death most civilians never think of. That honor is difficult to put a price on and after serving nearly 20 years, I have countless memories of good times, good people, new places and events - all ‘perks’ from my military service.

Throughout my career when people have asked me about the pay or commented that the pay is too low, my answer has always been -

“You are not going to get rich serving in the miltary, but it’s not about the money - it’s about serving your country.”

It is about honor and duty. Plain and simple. I consider it an honor to serve and my duty to serve well. I made CPT five months ago and chose to deploy instead of go to Captain Career Course. Are we here for the pay? I would hope not, if so as has been stated already its a dissapointment. We are here because we have desire to serve something greater and noble. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think it is comparable pay to the civilian world. 15 month deployments (NOW THE ARMY STANDARD) and regular field training exercises in garrison in addition to 12 hour work days IN GARRISON (leave my house at 530 AM get home by 530 PM) are not equivalent to the civilian job descriptions at the equivalent pay level. But hey if the pay don’t fit don’t stay in. I have another 6 months left on my obligation. Another 10 months after which the ARMY is forcing me to stay (not that I would leave my men in combat and come home) and then I will say farewell to the grand ole ARMY. I love my country and I am proud to serve, I will hold my head up high proud of the 27 months in Iraq out of 58 in the ARMY. But my boy is being born this Dec. I’ll miss it and the first year of his life. Just like my dad and his dad before him. It is a volunteer ARMY and I’m a proud volunteer. But even being such a high ranking OFFICER at 03 the trade off just doesn’t seem worth it. My old man is still in active service. He told me before I left this time that though he had twenty plus years in I was being asked to do more then his generation of service members. War is hell huh? I am the average junior captain in the american ARMY. Why do you think they just started offering us captains bonuses. By the way very few of the ‘junior’ captains are taking those bonuses. The unit I am replacing has 11/13 captains getting out instead of taking the money. Of the eligible CPTs in my unit 4 of us will be turning in our separation paperwork before christmas (we just got to Iraq) to insure the ARMY doens’t pull some shady trick with us (they are famous for this and if you argue it you know your wrong). And if there are any colonels reading this and want to call me a coward or talk about leaving my men I’ll meet you in your front yard as soon as I get back from sweating bleeding and burying my boys over here - like you have a clue. The ARMY isn’t a job. Its a calling of service and sacrifice. If someone wants to do that for twenty years more power to them, hope they aren’t married or have kids cause it sure is hell on family. I’m an ARMY brat and don’t hate the ARMY at all. I recognize the opportunities I got skiing the Alps and visiting the Mediteranean as a teen. AWESOME. But that was the old ARMY. Before the war on terror kicked off, we tied the soldiers hands with legalistic political grey areas and sent them to the sandbox year after year. The senior majors and the colonels and generals are looking at near retirement and cushy enough deployments behind desks and in helicopters. The rest of us are seeing multiple deployments walking down streets and trying to train policemen. Yeah, its been fun, I’m proud, will do my job with dedication and hopefully bring home all my men, my warrior, my heroes in 13 months, then me and my family are going to say thank you and farewell. I do believe my time in service will be of huge benefit in my job search, and I believe I can find a well paying job - albiet a job, probably not a calling, maybe not so noble. But we are Americans and have a freedom to choose our future - thanks to the blood of heroes. If America really needs me I’ll come a runnin.
- CPT AMERICA OUT -

Gasoline prices on post are generally not any lower than off-post stations, unless the stations are in extremely high priced areas. While pumps in Hawaii and California may have lower prices, they are subsidized by prices in other areas that are identical or even higher than off post (at my location, the price is at least the same, often higher, and they never get a penny of my money).

Soldiers believe they are underpaid becaue, well, like everyone, they want more. In the military, it’s epidemic that people spend their money on an expensive vehicle, and can afford nothing else. They are mistakingly purchasing a vehicle as an “investment”, when they VERY rarely are.

I would like to know the approximate difference in pay between a married and single E3 marine stationed at Camp LeJeune, NC. Please respond. Thank you.

I agree with you but encourage you all to consider other expenses that we don’t see, such as medical insurance and gym membership, etc… That alone is nearly $400 a month depending on your family size!

You act like all enlisted have only a high school diploma or GED. In fact, I’ve met many enlisted personnel who are highly eduacted. I’m sure that you have as well, you probably just don’t realize that they have those kinds of educations.

Show me an NCO who doesn’t have at least a few hours of college credit, even if it’s through AARTS. And more often than not, they have degrees as well.

Some people prefer the “hands on” part of being enlisted. They WANT to be down in the dirt. They don’t want to be an officer and deal with the bureaucracy that officers have to deal with. My husband is one of them. He never wants to be an officer, he would be miserable.

My husband is an E-5 and we have two young children. I have a degree, but am a SAHM as we decided it was more important for our children to always have a parent at home while he is only home every other year or so.

I seem to run into two kinds of people, the kind who think we are rich and the kind who think we are dirt poor.

The truth is, we are neither. We are middle class. We certainly don’t make the equivilant of 90K (stationed at Ft. Campbell, BAH is very low, although it did jump significantly Jan 1) But we are “okay” financially.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think they are paid enough for what they do. My husband is currently on his third deployment to Iraq. The first two were 12 months and this one is 15. The extra $650 a month isn’t enough for his life to be in danger and for him to miss out on his children’s lives. But it IS nice, and it will pad our savings account nicely.

My husband loves what he does. He takes great pride and honor in it. He even loves the job he gets to do while he’s deployed, he just hates being away from his family.

I have to agree that military is better than a lot of people think. I was in the Army for 8 years, and now in Iraq as a civilian contractor. Two other items were left out when calculating the actual pay that soldiers receive. First is medical care. In the civilian world you pay a few hundred dollars out of pocket, each month, for coverage. In the military you do not pay anything out of pocket for medical coverage which is equivalent to adding a few hundred dollars to your salary each month. Its not always what you take in each month, but also what you do not have to pay for each month. The other thing is retirement pay. The great majority of civilian people pay into a 401k or IRA each month for retirement. In the military, we don’t pay anything into a retirement fund, yet we get paid every month for the rest of our lives after 20 years. So basically, we do not pay for an IRA or 401k every month, where as civilians do. Again, this is basically like adding a few more hundred dollars to our salary each year even though we don’t see it in our bank accounts. To end my comment I will say I enjoyed my time in the Army, but I got out because I wasn’t taking care of myself and I wasn’t having as much fun in it any more. I went to Iraq twice with the Army and decided to take a breather from that life style. But I do think at times I might get back in, and a big lure is for the money and security that it provides. Thank you.

There was a typo on the message above. When talking about the retirement pay, i meant to say that not having to pay for an IRA or 401k each month is equivalent to adding a few hundred dollars to our paychecks each MONTH, not year. Thank you.

Let me just say I am the spouse of and E-4, and unfortunately we are much older than the average couple in the military these days, therefore we brought a life and bills with us, so we struggle, I don’t know anyone in the military who doesn’t, with kids that is. Also try 20,000 per year for salary not 40,000. see that is the benefit of NCO, thank you. Lastly some of us spouses who do not work, have valid reasons and it is not as you assume to spounge of the already supposed padded bill of the military. For instance I have a Degree, unfortunately I also have a muscular autoimmune disease and I am unable to work, so homemaker is my job. Being a military spouse sometimes makes it difficult to hold a job, as we move, and have to plan for field rotations, deployments etc. Walk a mile in a spouses shoes, then open your mouth. thank you

The military is a good choice for people who are going to get trained in a skill they can use outside the military, such as a linguist, a nuclear operator, or a tech job. You get your training, do your 4-6 years and then get out. You can get paid a lot more in the civilian world as a nuke or linguist than the military pays you. I’d venture to say that it’s a better idea to do that than to go to college.

But being in the infantry is a bad choice unless you’re just in it for the honor or plan on making a career out of the military. Employers don’t care if you can shoot and run fast.

No comment just a question. I was actually looking for a site to explain how the “mid month” deduction on an LES is calculated.

I do appreciate the post. I think people grossly mis-understand the pay and benefits military receive. There are a couple of points I would like to touch on.

I am an E-5 in the USAF with 4 years in service (yes, I made it on my first try). My pay as an E-5 is really good, and I do not complain about it one bit. In my short experience, however, AAFES is not saving me any money. Their price matching is a joke, and their prices are outrageous. I can pay much less for the same product at many online stores. Every once in a while I will find something good to buy at AAFES. DECA seems like a better company to me, and I wish we could get them to take over.

I am not sure what base/post/camp you are stationed at, but I have found that gas on base is about 10 cents HIGHER than gas at certain off base retailers. I guess it just depends on where you are at.

I must also take into account the amount of money I must spend on non-uniform items that I must purchase or maintain. Marine clothing allowance is a lot higher than Air Force (I agree that it should be - Marines have more uniforms to maintain). The clothing allowance enlisted get in the Air Force does not cover expenses brought to me by the Air Force. I can’t tell you how many times I have been forced to purchase MRE’s because I am not allowed to have any other food (they claim BAH should cover that, but then they need to inform me up front so I am not spending the money on food for home before I know about the situation). Then there’s being forced to pay for the promotion party every time I get promoted, even if I don’t go.

For the first 3 years, I barely get $100/year for a clothing allowance. Those first 3 years have the highest rate of getting things sewn to my uniform than any other time in my career. Just another punch to the pocketbook.

Don’t get me wrong, I am living VERY comfortably. As an E-2, I lived comfortably (without savings, though). I do not complain at all about the pay. I do appreciate the post. Just trying to add another perspective to the mix.

I generally agree with what you said in that the military pay isn’t too bad anymore, and that the recent changes to BAH as well (trying to match it to comparable civilian housing at 0% OOC) have made pay generally solid. Still, there are some underpaid people in the military — particularly in the technical, medical, legal, and a few other areas. My wife was an O-4 with 6 years in as an OB/GYN making basically about 100k a year in salary (when you include special and board certified pays) plus BAH, which sounds really good but she could make a LOT more outside the military and does so now with her own practice. I was making about 65k a year with BAH (in a high cost area) included as a new JAG and that pales in comparison to the 160k/year starting salaries at large law firms and now make three times what I did in the Air Force. It only get worse at higher ranks because O-5/O-6 lawyers make nothing close to partners at typical law firms. Both of us loved serving (and still do in the Reserve) but with the reality of school loans,we both had to get out and pay them off quicker if we wanted to have strong financial means to pay for our planned future children. (she’s pregnant now!)
I’ve seen a LOT of good medical officers in particular just get out because they simply have no choice with their school loans. Luckily, the military has great programs for going to medical and law school, but I think the military should consider stronger retention incentives for younger medical personnel who did not go that route originally.

I think officers are generally well paid, and think the lower enlisted are well paid too, but would require more analysis to look at the middle enlisted ranks. Sometimes I wonder.

Ok, First off I am an E-4 in the US Army currently and as for your “Examples” up above, you have to remember that the Army along with the rest of our branches have very flawed systems. For instance, my LES every month as an E-4 with 2.5 years in the military goes like this. I get this being stationed in Germany.(BASE PAY $1848.90)(BAH $8.10)(BAS $294.43)(COLA $291.40. Now heres what gets deducted every month, with no choice on eating on post or buying my own groceries or living on post or not. (FED Tax $221.34)(FICA SocialSECUIRTY $114.63)(MEDICARE 26.21)(SGLI 29.00)(State Taxes $36.56)(MEAL DEDUCTION $250.50)and I give to a charity every month. Now if you do that math, + being over seas, which cola helps, but not a lot, the phone bills here are twice to three times what they are in the states, and I still have to buy groceries because I don’t eat at the chow hall and feed my fiance, which the services don’t recognize her as a dependent, and pay a car bill + insurance and internet, I’m losing out on a lot more then I’m getting paid to live on. Oh, and the clothing allowance, no offense to any body, but for those of us who work, and dont have the luxury of sitting in an office all day, uniforms last maybe, if your lucky 3 months. Now your required in my battalion to have at least 4 “inspectable” uniforms and 2 pair clean “inspectable boots” at any given time. That averages out to about $1800 a year on clothing, where as we get…400 or so. I’m not the greatest at math, but someone do that and you’ll see that what was posted above doesn’t make any sence at all. Not that I’m unhappy with anything I mean I love serving our beautiful country, and I definately have enough to get by, but thats all it is, is enough to get by.

SPC_X,
Not eating for free at the chow hall, having a live-in fiance instead of a spouse, and having a car payment are all lifestyle choices you have made that are costing you money. It’s not the Army’s fault that you’ve chosen those expenses. I’m not encouraging you to get married, but your fiance/spouse decision is probably the biggest drain. Getting married would take away the meal deduction plus make you rate BAS and BAH to live off base.

It is not a myth (Unless you’re talking about officers exclusively). Many junior enlisted people give their lives for their country for around 25k a year. This is very factual.

The reason why I’m referring to enlisted personnel is because enlisted make up the majority of the military.

Enlisted people are getting paid too little for a job that may require them to give their lives.

Okay, my husband is in the navy and just made E-5 and we have 2 children. Even though we are married, they still deduct from FAS even though we have a family to feed and he most of the time only eats on the ship once a day five days a week. We still have to feed me and two kids.
I have a masters degree and try and try to find a job with no luck. We are on WIC. BAH covers our rent with six dollars to spare but we still have to pay electric, trash and water. Not all areas are tax free when a spouse is deployed. Mine was all over west africa for 7 months and never entered a tax free zone. My husband sews his own uniforms to save money. He just got 214 for uniforms but he goes through so many coveralls, boots, utilities it isn’t enough. Plus the navy is switching uniforms on top of it.
I don’t really complain cause I am proud of my husband and when I can find a job we do great. But I think the article was to superficial in its analysis. I do think once you reach E-5 and up things get better. We are still waiting on his pay increase for his promotion. He is also putting in an officers packet to further himself. Oh and WIC does count FAS but not BAH at least in VA and OH.

I like your post but its not entirely true. In actuality we don’t get paid much. Reason being, local economies built around military bases leech the life right out of military people.

They know the BAH rates, if you rent anything its almost always near the BAH cap which means you are living off your base pay and BAS. Same with purchasing houses in adjoining areas near military bases.

I have two children and a wife who has medical issues. And we live from check to check because Tri-Care doesn’t cover everything anymore with medical insurance for dependents.

And most bases don’t provide everything you say they do ie. gas 15 cents cheaper then local gas stations.

If you are a single person, healthy then yes you can get ahead in the military. But if you are married, with children… You make only enough to barely get by. And thats at E-5 paygrade.

Okay, here is this military wife’s two cents. I can’t speak for the lower enlisted, because my husband was already an E-5 when I met him, but we are quite comfortable with our pay. My husband is currently an army recruiter and it humors me when he comes home and tells me about the eighteen-year-old that he talked to at the Burger King who thinks they make more than he does.

Now I’ve always been comfortable with our pay, but it didn’t occur to me how much we actually made until recently. I have to start student teaching in the fall, so I had to find a day care for my son. I am a stay home mom, so I’ve never had to do this before. I signed him up at the base child care center, and they base the fee on total family income. I was pleased to find out that my husband makes $55,500 a year. And that doesn’t even take into consideration the $300-$500 a month that we do not pay for insurance. I am very happy with our life style. As an E-6 with 7 years in, my husband brings home $55,000 a year. I’ll take that.

And a note about WIC, they only count base pay when they are calculating income for WIC. So that is why you may know miltary memebers who get WIC. I personally do not think that this is right. Civilians have to buy their food and pay for housing out of their income, they don’t get any breaks.

Actually WIC counts everything BUT BAH. I know cause my husband is an E-5 and we are on WIC. They count his hazard pay, sea pay, FAS, etc. I don’t think there is anything wrong with military members being on WIC cause they fight for our freedom and the stress on families is intense. We barely qualify at E-5 with two kids so if you have one you will not qualify so once he gets promoted again or when I start working we won’t qualify. Like I said previously, I have my masters degree in social work and have still yet to find a job after 3 months. We have two children and never expected it to take so long to find a job considering I have 5 years of work experience. WIC saves us big time and helps alot because we cannot even make out monthly bills.
As someone said before, alot of areas, especially Hampton Roads, know the BAH rate and base rent on that. We have 6 dollars a month left over after rent from our BAH and we are using the Military Partnership Program. Then electric is about 120 a month, and then 50 a month for water and sewer. Really thats not bad but the rent kills us. We are on the military housing list but cannot even move in until our lease it up when they call us.
My husband is constantly on his knees, covered in oil, ruins his boots etc. because of what he does so uniforms don’t last long except his dress uniforms which he hardly has to wear.
I am so proud of my husband and we are better off than many families but when you compare what the military pays including the BAH to pay of comporable jobs in the civilian world last I heard there is 5% or so pay difference.
We are not starving by any means and like most families these days both parents need to work due to rising living costs.

I meant BAS not FAS.. whoops. I always do that.