The Midnight Hour

“Few people recognize their plight and even fewer know thir burden.”

I suspect that is why we are fighting this war with the same ROE of the Kansas Highway Patrol making routine traffic stops. No one at the highest level of leadership understands what it will take to win or doesn’t want to hear the correct answer.

Your comments are the first I have seen in print that at least establishes a little background as why regreatable and uncommon events on ROE could happen and will liekly happen again at some point.

Patrols on the the booby trapped jungle trails leading to the villages in Vietnam were no different. Neither were the 19 year olds trying to figure out the hearts and minds of the people they were sent to protect.

The liberal press and their scope of understanding and support for the american soldier
on the field of battle is also no different.

Jeff,
Unbelievable…I am almost speachless…You really brought to home what I have been trying to explain to people when they verbally attack me when I wear my Marine Corps Iraqi Freedom shirt. Thanks so much.

Michael Yon’s dispatches are powerful stuff. But he never brought me to tears. You did.

Tears don’t help much, though, do they? So I think I’ll have to get ‘involved’ in the political process for the first time in my life. Perhaps I can make a small difference.

Thank you for making clear what I should have known: it’s important to try!!

You’re doing great work - the hard physical battles; the ever present split decisions; and your well-written thoughts and stories. I appreciate you taking time to give us a real perspective. More importantly I appreciate the service all of you give so selflessly. My support will never waiver, even in the face of a few misguided incidents, you Marines are the best of the best.

And, yes High Cotton, please do get involved in the political process - bumper stickers; letters to the editor; whatever. It’s uncomfortable “becoming visible” and it’s a lot of BS, but it matters because the idiots at MoveOn.org and their ilk will never stop trying to undermine what our country needs to do to keep us safe and free.

One of the best ways we can support our troops is to make sure we elect those who understand the threats we face.

Very good & informative article. Our Marines are up against amazing things on a daily basis. I was not in the military and I was not in Haditha so I will not question the young Marine’s decision, I was not in the young Marine’s boots. The Marine Corp will sort it out. Stay safe and all of you are in my prayers.

Wow, Midnight! You are up there with the big dogs now! GG!

I just read the article, Jeff. Absolutely amazing! Superbly written! GG, Again!

Very well said. Nobody doubts the pressures. Everybody that I know understands what might have happened here. Yet still we hold the Marines to a very high standard who is able to withstand extreme pressures that ordinary American citizens cannot withstand. It is human nature to react in irrational ways in times of extreme pressure, it is a Marines responsibility to react in extraordinary ways in times of extreme pressure!
We are very Proud of Our Marines! Remember that every step you take, you take in honor of your country. So when you are in the thick out of it or on down time, remember we are behind you every breathe you take, every step you make and desire only the best for you…

One huge reason to restrain from retaliation from anger and rage: Instances like this will snowball into major problems for our military and politcally. If this continues and other actions of this sort are reported over and over, eventually if not instantly it will effect the military’s ability to do their job, it will cause even more safety issues for them and it portrays an image to the whole world that we are no better than what we are supposed to be fighting. The media will run like the wind with this report and all the other reports now popping up.
If the time has come when the pressures have mounted to such a level that the soldiers are ready to snap, then it is time to bring them home.

No… Now is not the time to bring them home. Now is the time for all of our citzenry to get behind our troops and their mission. They are in the dirt and sand fighting a war while we sit back and complain about the price of gas. We are all a bunch of hypocrites. The media in this country does its best not to paint the real story.

We have a responsibility to understand why we are there and what victory looks like. Victory is an Iraq stood up by the rule of law and democratic principles able to take care of itself. An Iraq and Afghanistan that separate religion from politics. Why? Because Koranic law is not a law any free human being should live under. If these two countries can be transformed then other countries in the region, like Egypt, Syria, (Lebanon already), Jordan, Saudi Arabia (the lynchpin) and Pakistan might move to self-governance and rule of law.

We must see it through, this is a viable and justifiable battle in the war on terror (or Islamic Fascism as Bush is finally recognizing).

We need to be behind our guys 100% now and in the future!!!

Why? Because if we fail now, there is a much larger war we will have to fight and that will surely require sacrifice of our treasure, sweat, blood and tears.

We have the holy mission to combat to spread democracy and freedom around the world and if this means the final solution, that’s our due to do it. Eliminate all alien subcultures that are against freedom and democracy.

First of all, I never stated I am against our troops. Second of all, the facts that you speak about the hopes of Iraq becoming self-governing country and it having a domino affect on the surrounding countries is a noble cause but that is not what concerns Americans.

It may be unfortunate that most Americans only see this war being fought because for self preservation and could give two hoots if Iraq choses to become a democracy. A democratic Middle East is a wonderful idea but not what people really care about. They care about their men dying. They care about terrorists hating us and destroying us. They care about the protection of their own…which if you ask an Iraqi family, they will say the same…they just want to be able to take care of their family in a safe and secure environment. And apparently they care, we care and the world cares when Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and chairman of the Iraqi Human Rights Association, Muayed al-Anbaki comes out and says that OUR military are committing crimes against innocents.

I am sorry but media is what most people in the world seek for their information. And if sometimes it is twisted or not telling the complete story, then it is the responsibility for the military and our government to step up their efforts in informing the public.
Yes, we must win but this episode or episodes will surely do nothing to further our efforts in the battle to win. I say if there are soldiers that have had all they can take and take no more then they need to be brought home for help. Some believe that the draft should be reinstated but the politcal atmosphere is not such for that to happen.
People really don’t understand the implications of not winning, they see another Vietnam. They just want it to all stop. They believe in the troops but not in their politicians. And most of all they are weary of war.

Forgive my misspelled words:)
When I get on a roll, I don’t check…

And Hank, geez, we are not on a holy mission.
God didn’t come down and deem us the Peace Makers to spread democracy through out the world.

We cannot pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan! If we do than we are going to have huge problems in the future. If we pull out now it would be a devastating blow to the U.S. and the rest of the world. We have to hang in there, the troops are not the ones about to snap… we are. The American people are losing faith and interest in the war, thanks to the drive by media. We are so caught up in American Idol and all these other reality shows that we cannot stay focused on what is truly important for very long. The youths of our country are almost completely ignorant of what is going on over there and why. Many of them are too lazy to even learn about it. I’m 19 years old, and let me tell you I have no faith in the youth of this country. Unless parents take a more active roll in their sons/daughters lives and inform them about what is going on in our country and about the war, our country is going to go to pot. …Sorry, got a little off track there. The point is that we cannot pull out now! We simply cannot!

Jeff,

Great post. Thank You so much for your insight and your service to our country.

I also posted this article I wrote on my blog:

Haditha Marines Deserve the Benefit of the Doubt !

The main stream news media is all over the story,labeling Marines as murderers, a congressman and former Marine has pronounced the Haditha Marines guilty and would probably sentence them if he could. All of this without a trial and all of it with only one side of the story. It’s trial by main stream news media and congressman Murtha.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt? Our brave men and women in the US Military are fighting for our freedom everyday in the war on terror, facing an enemy that does not wear a uniform. They are facing an enemy that has multiple faces, young, old, women and children used to kill US troops. Shouldn’t the brave men and women who fight in the war on terror be given the benefit of the doubt until a trial can determine what really happened in Haditha?

Back here at home murders, rapists,child molesters and the like are innocent until proven guilty, with groups such as the ACLU and the like supporting those rights if there is even a hint of them being violated. Yet here we have men and women who put their lives on the line to fight the war on terror being tried by the media and some overzealous congressmen before a trial is even announced. Where are the groups screaming for the soldiers rights of innocent until proven guilty?

Certainly in time of war during battles things can get chaotic and confusing, we don’t have the full picture of what happened at Haditha yet, and anyone claiming that they do who was not there and has only heard one side of the story, is speaking irresponsibly. These are people lives that we are talking about here and what is being portrayed by the media and Murtha as a massacre during this time will affect the soldiers and their families for the rest of their lives.

No matter what the outcome of the Haditha incident, these brave men and women have EARNED the right of innocence until proven guilty that we enjoy as the result of these brave men and women who fight for us in the war on terror today, and those who have fought in wars past.

It is time for the main stream news media and some US congressmen to stop the hyping and sensationalism of this situation for political purposes and let the Uniform Code of Military Justice do its job while at the same time affording these Marines their rights under the constitution that they certainly earned.

They are absolutley innocent until proven guilty! Whatever happened to that idea?

Read this…
When Iraq Abuses Fail to Shock http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/telhami/20060502.htm

I found your blog thanks to Michael Yon. Thank you for putting some things into perspective for the many of us who don’t have the insight only people who’ve been there could have.

God bless you, and God bless ALL our U.S. servicemen and women who have in the past and are currently serving their country. Thank you for all you do on our behalf.

I am not saying they are guilty. There may be a perception of guilt throughout the world, maybe not here at home but yet in the places where we are already on shakey ground.

The perspective that is given above by Jeff is a plausible one for sure. Yet there are so many different variables that work into this equation called Iraq. We just don’t need any more controversy but then again this is war and you know what they say about war…all is fair.

I have noticed that the media seems to trying to defend our troops by presenting several different speakers that are cautioning people not to jump to conclusions and putting out the same scenario read here. Battle weary soldiers come under attack by an IED, see some their friends hurt and dead, maybe have seen this more than once, lose their cool and attack or maybe there is more to it…maybe they were being fired upon by these people from these houses. I don’t know. That is for the Marines to find out.
I still side with our guys and always will.

BBC Reports: Guns Cause Gunshot Wounds…

“Listen,” said a BBC spokesman, “these people were lying dead in Iraq. The US Marines are in Iraq. You do the math.”…

Hey Jeff-
Thank you for your post on Haditha.
I was an active duty Marine from 1965-71 assigned to 2/5 and later 1st Mar. Div.
During that time I also had the privlage of fighting alongside the outstanding Marines of 3/5.
I am sickened by the way our Marine brothers are being attacked in the media around the world.
But, unlike a “combat zone,” the Marines now being accused are unable to defend themselves against the media ambush and feeding frenzy.
In my case, the last time I was wounded, we were ambushed from a village that we regularly provided medical aid and c-rations to. Unfortunately the enemy doe not hold up a card reading “shoot ME,” and as you and I know from personal experience, during the heat of battle, and in spite of our best efforts to the contrary, “friendly fire” accidents can and do happen, and that includes unintended civilian casualties. Such is war.
If the alleged incident did in fact occur, and I do mean If, I hope and trust the Marine Corps will handle it appropriately, and not succumb to media pressure by scapegoating a few troops and an Officer or two. My biggest fear is not the enemy in Iraq, but that the American public led by a few cowardly politicians and bottom feeding media will betray the brave Marines who put their lives on the line 24/7 something bigger than themselves. Been there, and it sucks.
Trust your gut and stay safe. My thoughts and prayers are always with you guys, and you are never alone.
Semper Fi, Paul

What I would like to know is why is Iraq still going to investigate the Ishaqi incident when our Military has cleared them, our American Military, of any wrongdoing.
What are they trying to do? What does this say about our relationship with the Iraqis? They can’t imprison any of our soldiers, can they?
Is this more propaganda but for Iraqi consumption?

Jeff, thank you for such a well-written article. I wish all Americans could/would read it. We at home just have no conception of what our military is facing every day and we need to care enough to read or hear this. I’m constantly ashamed of things coming from the mouths of people who know better - but they can’t seem to keep their mouths shut. Then there are the ones who just believe anything they see on TV or read in the papers and don’t seem to care enough to learn anything more. After all, it’s not really happening to THEM. I worry that Americans at home have lost their spine. Thank God for our Soldiers and Marines - all our service people - who are willing to face what the rest of us either can’t or won’t. Y’all have my undying support and thanks and continue to be in my thoughts and prayers hourly.

Jeff:

Hope you drop by Frontline Forum to read all the wonderful praises you have received there as well. There is also a link to an audio commentary on your article by Mark Levin.

FYI - I sent you an email but the addy that once worked no longer does, so I’ll post some of it here:

What an insightful and thought provoking piece you have contributed to the Forum. I made mention of it and your blog on my blog. Dean Esmay has also linked to it.
Your audience is growing rapidly - and its much deserved!

Hoping you will contribute another piece in the future.

I am reminded of how Marine Illiano Pantano was wrongfully accused of murdering two Iraqi civilians by an jealous irate Marine he had reprimanded and how his guilt was pre determined by the media, only to end up being completely exonerated when the autopsy of the two dead Iraqis was presented in court.

I sincerely hope it proves to be the same with these Marines.
But if not, then I know that they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And should these allegations prove to be true - then I also hope that Americans and Iraqi’s refuse to paint the entire Marine Corps with the same dark brush.

..Semper Fi Marine..I ended up with the 3rd MP Battalion..3rd Marine Amphibious Forces at Da Nang before I left Viet Nam..and spent the next 30 years trying to reason out what you just said in your article in Michael’s Post..why we ended up doing the things we did..It never leaves..it wasn’t until just the past few years I was able to accept the idea that war is not about ‘killing’..it is about ’surviving’..and as a Marine..you will do anything to survive..
..I have been following and supporting Michael’s efforts from the beginning..if I want truth..I go to Michael..his style of writing even has a way of reasoning things out and claming me down..rationalizing this war in the middle east..Starting to sound just like ‘The Nam’..??..It is..I can only hope that the forces that be can find a solution to this problem..I’m not even going to pretend I have one..but these stories such as this one from Haditha just wear me down..I hate seeing my fellow Marines just blown to the four winds..unprotected..
..I cannot say we in Viet Nam were totally innocent of such incidents ourselves..I personally never witnessed one act of atrocity toward the civilian population..but bad things did happen and that is a hard pill to swallow..but never intentionally..
..This is the first time I have been to your site..I like what I see so far..as before with those that came before you in the Blog world..thanks for keeping us in the loop..where else are we going to hear truths..Semper Fi..

I am reading Fields of Fire by James Webb, it is about the Marines in Vietnam. I don’t know how true the book is to what it was like, but if it is even close, than it was pretty rough. Anyway, so far it pretty much goes along with what you just said. It’s very sad, but at the same time compelling.

Most of us grasp why we are doing this, and why we are putting these fabulous military people in harms way. Are we willing to face their parents, sisters, brothers, wives, husbands and children when they come back horribly wounded or worse? I ask myself this all the time, and wonder whether I could face the returning military and the relatives of those killed and wounded to tell them how much I appreciate their sacrifice. I fear they may ask me why I think our country took this conflict on. I say this: It can’t be about oil, please, no! Can’t be about trying to spread democracy and freedom around the world, please, no! Can’t be about our competitive business interests, please, no! It can’t be about trying to surround Iran in an old age attempt at containment, please, no! The only thing that makes sense, if we are to keep our wits about us, is… it is about keeping this terrible, irrational cultural conflict off our shores — at all costs. The conflict simply must be waged and has to be won, outside the U.S. to keep it from consuming us. This is the only thing that makes sense to me. Some introspection is called for at this juncture in our history: Do we deserve to survive as a country? Yes, obviously! Are we a perfect society, or even a great society? Only 1000 years of history can answer. Have we done more good than bad in our own country? Yes, and it has been difficult at times. Have we done more good than bad around the world? I am pretty certain we have, on balance. Do we stack up well to other countries who are asked these two questions? Finally a question that has an easy answer, YES, Absolutely! Should we feel the need to apologize for our mistakes? Yes, that is the measure of us. But we have to go on, since this is a struggle for the lifeblood of the U.S. itself. Would we like to see a world without the U.S? For me, No! I just hope each of us is up to the task of welcoming home all our military heroes, whether wounded, killed, or survived in tact! They and their families deserve our undying thanks, admiration and love! I hope I have what it takes.

I am reading some old articles about Vietnam and they said the very same thing about what a terrible price we would pay if we lost.

Now here is the million dollar question. How long can the battle of wills last? That is what it amounts to…they try the Americans patience and we Americans are not known for our patience.

Here’s another question. How come there aren’t people demanding us to pull out of Afghanistan?
We never finished there before we started a new war.
Now Iran…

It appears to me that we are slowly marching back towards the boats because our desire to be there as Americans on a whole is all but gone. It’s not a statement against the troops. It is a political thing and wars cannot be won without the trust in the governement and the will of the people behind the war…both of which have been dangling on a thread.

So it is to be that if we retreat, that we will eventually fight these zealots upon our soil?? Is that what everybody is suggesting?
That in order for our great country to maintain its’ existence as we know it, we must complete what we started. Are you suggesting that our land will become the battle ground if we fail in Iraq? If that is true, then that is the message that needs to be made plain and clear.

The Haditha trial in the media…

Michelle Malkin has another instance of the media’s prosecution of the unindicted Marines of Haditha–the UK Times editor has apologized via email but the damage is done, in my opinion. READ THIS. Unless they issue a correction on the fron…

This discussion brings to mind a simple old saying I heard many times as a child from my late father, “Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.” He was a simple man with only a grade school education. Simple, yet oh so insightful. Sound familiar? May the angels continue to watch over you as you complete your mission and your journey home.

Have just read the entire blog, very entertaining and thought provoking, great photos too. We found your blog via Michael Yon and left a comment over there-thankyou for all that you are doing in this good fight against this horrible enemy. And thankyou for taking the time out of your horrendous schedule to educate all of us back home about what is really going on, we already love you for it!

Rock on Jeff! I have only commented once or twice but I check out your site and your blog daily. Once a Marine, always a Marine, and I have spent countless hours trying to explain this to those who have never served. I am also trying to comment to those who are asking me what I think of my son being over there now. My son is in the Haditha area currently. I’m sure I don’t know the half or what he has faced and is facing, and I’m not even sure if he’ll talk about it when he gets back. He is 20 years old, and like all of the Marines out there today, he has a well disciplined mind and balls of steel to even volunteer for this gig. I’m sure there are those who have snapped under the pressure. Thank you for sharing your perspective, and I will email it and the broadcast out to everyone that I can. Keep up the great work. Semper Fi.

Haditha An Insurgent Citadel Part Four…

I am beyond angry at the left, and I distrust the enemy with all their lies. But I do know I believe in our troops….

Michael Yon’s Frontline Forum…

Marine Capt Jeff Barnett offers a thought provoking and insightful commentary on The Haditha Killings….

The piece that you wrote is fully deserving of the praise it has received, but the comments posted here alone make me sad that the US media isn’t supporting the troops on the ground as much as they could, or should. In the UK, yes there was opposition to going to war, and yes when there are media-publicised incidents concerning British troops demonstrating ‘unneccessarily aggressive’ behaviour there has been negative opinion backlash, but there has always also been the supporting voice and opinion in the media (and in the UK population’s own minds) that can understands the soldier’s perspective and proclaims the difficulties faced by the troops day in and day out, and it supports them regardless.

Those of us who haven’t been to war can’t ever truly understand what you go through every day, all we can do is have faith that you do the right thing wherever you can, and not criticise the many for the actions of a few.

It is an excellent commentary exploring the immense difficulties faced in an insurgency war. While one explanation has been extrapolated, it must be said that other factors may also play a role when an incident such as alleged, occurs, since the majority of our troops behave honorably and lawfully in the midst of the same frustrations. Mindful that the official report is still pending on Haditha, I will not second guess whether something illegal has occured. However it is not inappropriate to state my utmost admiration for the nearly 1,000,000 young Americans who have served with honor and dedication and according to the ROE and the law in our war efforts.

Please Lt., read the article http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f882c1b8-aa42-431f-83a6-0066e7629ace.

As I stated in a comment on Michael Yon’s blog, I suspect the truth is somewhat different than what is beng reported. I certainly hope so. Ramalah was manipulated as was Al Durah and this may be the same. Something about waht is being reported just doesn’t hunt. Haditha and the above article gives voice to my doubts.

By the way, thanks for your and your men’s sacrifices.

I like the way you think. I like the way you write. Thank you for the pictures, especially of Zaidon and Ferris town. My “Operator” Son is in Fallujah too, but not often inside the wire. You have been with his unit. I’ll see if I can get him to say Hi… I’d like you to meet him, he is also a good observer, but not yet convinced of his talent.
Fm a Navy combat VN Vet(not Kerry)
Semper Fi

That there’s Will Scarlet. Pay ‘im no ‘eed. ‘E’s full o’ piss and wind.

WW,

You have invoked the classic straw-man argument where you take an interpretation of what I said and then prove it faulty, all the while ignoring your interpretation of my words is incorrect, sometimes blatantly.

uou spent an awful lot of time trying to persuade your readers that civilians in Haditha were, at the very least, complicit in the planting of the IAD whose detonation began the whole incident.

I did no such thing. I presented a hypothetical example to exemplify the stresses of fighting an insurgency and possibly explain, not excuse, such alleged incidents as Haditha. I was blatantly clear I do not condone such alleged incidents. I said nothing of the civilians of Haditha.

How does that change anything? Do the Marine Corps rules of engagement provide that marines shall execute civilians in their houses if an IAD goes off under one of their trucks?

I clearly explained that the ROE require positive ID of someone being a threat before we can engage.

Well, fine, because now I want answers. Not excuses.

How kind of you to tell the Marine Corps what you want. I’m sure Gen Hagee will be at your house Monday morning with bells on, explanation in hand. The investigation will surely provide the answers you want. I have no answers to give you.

because if nothing else the Marine Corps is very good at telling us how very good it is.

When we stop being very good we’ll stop telling you about it.

BTW, it’s an I-E-D.

WW,

If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt it is those guys defending us from the terrorists.

“I wasn’t so much outraged at the fact of them as I was deeply dismayed at the USMC’s failure to investigate them from the get-go and their apparent willingness to deny not once, but twice, the reality of what occurred.”

Reality of what occurred? We don’t know what occurred! The investigation is not complete! To me it looks like you have already tried and convicted those Marines and are waiting for the sentence. You say you are “all ears”, but I think the only answers you want to hear is why they murdered, not whether they actually did or not. You have already decided they did.

Until the investigation is complete and all the evidence is laid out I consider those Marines innocent. If in fact I find out they are guilty, than I will be very upset and hope that justice is served. But I am not willing to pass judgment yet, especially when I have no military experience.

“You say the USMC is all about accountability. You’re not the only marine to stress that point. A long-time friend of mine is a retired marine and says the same thing.”

Well, they ought to know, they are in the Marines after all! I don’t know if you ever served in the military or not. But if you have not, I don’t know where you come off lecturing Jeff about responsibility.

I take it from your tone that you do not hold the U.S. military in very high esteem. That’s fine; you may not even live in the U.S. If you do, that’s your right; you can have any ignorant opinion you want. But know this, guys like Jeff and those Haditha Marines fight for that right that you exercise so well. You should be thanking them, but I don’t expect people like you to understand that.

“Now let’s see about that accountability, and let’s see just how high up the chain of command it will be permitted to go.”

Yeah, I bet your mouth is watering you are so excited. I bet you’re hoping this one goes all the way to the top, and preferably the executive branch.

WW:

Please answer these questions as posed by the blogger. I am interested in hearing your response.

When does passive approval [by Iraqi citizens of insurgents’ actions] become active aggression?

If someone knows about an IED and they aren’t outside trying to flag us down before we hit it, how responsible are they for its results?

What are they guilty of if they know who murdered our comrades and don’t tell us when directly questioned?

How do you discern the true insurgent sympathizers from the poor farmer that fears for his life if he helps us?

Does that poor farmer’s fear excuse his inaction?

“No one deserves the benefit of any doubts on this, period.”
They are innocent until proven guilty. They have not been proven guilty yet. Therefore no mater how much you may want to call them guilty, you must give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven so.

“We know quite a bit. We know that marines executed a number of civilians. This is proven by photographs taken by a marine who was on the scene. We don’t know which marines did it. We may never know that, thanks to the USMC’s delay in commencing a criminal investigation.”
Okay, so you are just going to form your already decided opinion, based upon a few photographs. You seem to make quite a few assumptions about the Marines, but you won’t hear about anyone making assumptions about the Iraqis there at the scene. We do not know what happened! Nobody filmed the incident, the pictures taken show the aftermath, not necessarily what happened.

“I haven’t lectured Jeff about a single thing.”
That should have been accountability , not responsibility, don’t know where that came from…
But anyway, your entire rant is basically demanding that the Marines be accountable and complaining that they are not. You act like what Jeff, and the “retired Marine” you know are full of it when they say that the Marine Corps is all about accountability. I think you ought to take them at their word, considering they have experience and you do not.

“My attitude about the U.S. military is irrelevant here. All that matters is what happened at Haditha; how the Marine Corps handled it; and what they do from here.”
That is BS! It has everything to do with it! You are letting your opinion on the war in Iraq dictate your jedgemnt of these Marines. You are in quite a hurry to punish these guys for something we don’t know for certain that they did! You are making a rush to judgment!

“The marines in Iraq are fighting for lie. Their efforts, valiant as they are at times, have absolutely nothing to do with my safety or security. But even if they did, it doesn’t give anyone the right to murder civilians, nor does it somehow make it wrong for Americans (yes, I am one) to ask direct and rather pointed questions about it. If Jeff or you or Hagee don’t like it, tough.”
There, you prove my point! You are angry because we are in Iraq and it is affecting your judgment on these Marines. If you live in the U.S. than the efforts of those Marines have very much to do with your safety and security. Those terrorist would love nothing better than to be blowing up cars and IEDs in the U.S. instead of Iraq. But setting aside the war at hand, the Marines job is protecting us from those who would harm us. You ought to at least appreciate that.

“I have plenty of issues with Bush, but I don’t imagine he had a single thing to do with the Haditha affair. That bit of paranoia is yours, not mine.”
Wow, your actually not blaming the president personally for Haditha… well thats a step in the right direction at least. But this is yet another thing that I think you guys are forming your opinions based upon. You don’t like the war, the president represents that effort and you hate him in the first place. So you have made up your mind on what happened because you don’t like the Marines or what they are doing, even though it is protecting us.

“Something else. Granting anyone “the benefit of the doubt” merely encourages the manufacture of doubts, which is exactly what the right-wing “milblogosphere” has been doing in the Haditha case. And by having waited four months to request a criminal investigation of what it knew — or had every reason to know — within a day or two was something very different from what it should have been, the USMC certainly did its part.”

Well I wouldn’t know much about that, I only read Jeff’s blog. But when I say benefit of the doubt, I mean they are innocent until proven guilty.
Once again, they have not been proven guilty yet. When they are, if they are, I will then form my opinion on the subject. Unlike you, I don’t WANT to see a bunch of Marines proven as murderers, but if it happens, then so be it.

No, you can’t shoot someone for being an insurgent sympathizer.

Pictures don’t prove civilians were murdered; they prove civilians died. They might have been combatants, or possibly collateral damage resulting from combat with combatants. They might have been murdered. We don’t know.

Your problems with the Marine Corps are way above my pay grade, but why should Gen Hagee resign over an incident he knew nothing about at the time?

I’ve already spent too much time on you. I have precious little time to devote to this blog, and I’m not going to spend it refuting your antics. I welcome opinions that differ from mine, but you must keep things civil and refrain from personal attacks. One more post with sly insults and condescension (You may think you’re clever…, putting Midnight in quotations, etc ) directed towards me and you’ll no longer be welcome here. I hand out bans like Jolly Ranchers. This is my house, and I’ll boot my own mother out if she pisses me off. This is your only warning.

“I’ve been told that I hate Bush, the I hold the military in low esteem, that I want to see marines proven as murderers, and that my even-tempered posting are “rants.””

Wow, that’s really personal; I bet you’re all broken up about it. Never heard anything so personal in my life! That kind of rhetoric should be illegal. “rant”? I nearly faint at the sound of such language!
Those are hardly personal attacks, WW. You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to say that they are. The stuff I said is nothing, absolutely nothing, compared to the kind of trash talk that goes on TV, the internet, and frankly everyday life in political debates, and you know this. Granted, I shouldn’t accuse you of things, but don’t act like it is so unbelievable that I should get the impressions I did. It is obvious from the tone and sarcasm that the things I said are pretty close to the mark.

“Your real problem is with an effective adversary. When you encounter one on the Internet, you eventually ban that person’s postings; you are in favor of free speech until someone runs circles around you. I’d ask what you do in Iraq when anyone disagrees, but I suspect by now that the civilian population has learned not to voice disagreement with one of their occupiers.”

Oh please, don’t flatter yourself! I have yet to see anyone rival Jeff’s writing abilities on here. I don’t see you running circles around anything. All I see is complaints and demands that Jeff has answered; you just are not satisfied with them.

“And of course, you will ban me from your website because, when it comes down to it, you wouldn’t know the value of freedom if it slithered up and bit you on the ass.”

Speaking of personal attacks… talk about a hypocrisy.

Look buddy, if anyone knows the value of, or anything about freedom it is Jeff and those fighting for it. How dare you tell Jeff that he doesn’t know anything about freedom, when he is risking his life and the well being of his family for it! He has done more for freedom than you have! I just see you whining and complaining, making demands, at the people who are doing the toughest job on earth, keeping you and I safe. You may refuse to believe that, but I think if things were going differently politically you would be singing a very different tune.

If you say anything negative about Jeff and freedom again, I hope he slaps a ban on you so fast it makes your liberal head swim!

An effective adversary on the internet? Sounds like virginity among whores to me. Since you are such a mental giant I encourage you to create your own website and espouse your opinions there. I am sure it will garner much more interest than my meager audience. Freedom of speech does not guarantee you an audience nor does it excuse trespassing. I wouldn’t let the Klan hold a rally in my front yard, and I’m not going to let you insult me on my own website.

Isn’t it ironic how he speaks of Freedom as “slithering”?

I would like to voice something. I dont agree with putting anyone down. We all have our on thoughts and reasons for what we do and believe in. Therefor no one should but down anyone and definintly not on thier site.

Also I believe we hear about killings of people in Iraq. Why are we more focused on that instead of the people killed on 9/11 or the guys still giving thier lives for us. I would never question what most of our men and women do. We are not there to make the desicions that they make nor do we no what is in thier minds. It has to be over whelming at times, I stand behind the training of our armed forces! More power to you midnight and all of our service members!

It appears that LtCol Ware may be skeptical about charges in this case, as he was in LCpl Sharratt’s case.

http://dreadnaught.wordpress.com/2007/07/25/haditha-update-lcp-tatums-article-32-days-6-and-7/

yojoe

24% of Americans believe that the Internet is able for a time to replace them with a loved one. For obvious reasons, such sentiments particularly prevalent among residents of the United States alone. Both men and women can replace the beloved, beloved trips to the World Network. However, the willingness to such transactions vary among followers of different ideologies: conservatives frowned relate to this idea, and the “progressive-minded” on the contrary, Nerkarat it.

Study company Zogby International also showed that every fourth resident of the United States have their own representation in the web-site or internet-stranichka. Creating internet-dvoynikov most passionate about young people (18-24 years of age) - 78% of them have personal Web page. In doing so, 68% of those surveyed said that the World Wide Web, they do not appear in its original capacity, their virtual overnight seriously different from the real.

Only 11% of Americans would agree implantable microchip in his brain, which would provide them with direct contact with the Internet. But the situation is changing, in the case of children. Almost every fifth resident of the United States would agree to equip their child safety device which would allow him to track the movement in space on the Internet.

10% of U.S. stated that the Internet brings them to God. ” In turn, 6% are convinced that because of the existence of the World Wide Web God away from them.

And how you feel? Sorry bad English.

Добрый день!Наша компания “ООО Навадвипа” (www.kupiflashku.ru) предлагает карты памяти со склада в Москве любых видов(SD,MiniSD,MicroSD,Memory Stick Pro Duo,Rs-MMC,Compact Flash,а так же USB Flash Driver) в любых количествах и по хорошим ценам.
По москве и в регионы осуществляется доставка.Цены на крупный опт обсуждаются отдельно по тел.89261853689 Олег или icq 352824952 Николай. По ценам всегда можно договориться)Мы уверены что сможем найти понимание и прийти к взаимовыгодному сотрудничеству!

To get high rankings in Yahoo and MSN is all about links? I can get ranked easier in Google with links,
but the other two I have no clue.

Looking for a gift for my husband,.. maybe kamagra is a good idea ??

Check this out and let me know Buy Kamagra Online